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Hotspot problem of AMD’s Radeon RX 7900 XTX (MBA): Even several batches of the vapor chamber affected, replacement of thousands of cards starts

I deliberately waited until I could get congruent and plausible information through various information channels, which can now also shed some light after two to three weeks. While AMD’s support initially resisted even acknowledging the hotspot problem as such and described the 110 °C hotspot temperature as completely normal, the situation is now much more pleasant from the customer’s point of view.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank in advance all those who have provided me with information over the last two or three weeks but who, for understandable reasons, do not want to or cannot be named. However, I explicitly point out that all this information should be considered preliminary until an official statement from AMD and that there could still be corrections to the mentioned numbers.

In this context, I had actually waited for yesterday, because a statement from AMD was communicated internally (I wrote about it several times that I would like to wait for this for the time being), but then it did not happen. I am therefore taking this incomprehensible delay as an opportunity today to bring some transparency to the matter.

The problem is already known for more than two weeks and is communicated between AMD and the distributors (internally) .. How exactly the problem will be communicated to the end customer has not yet been finally decided. … AMD’s statement was originally supposed to be made on January 3, 2023 at 6 p.m. CET, but it was postponed.  (quote from email)

 

Let’s first summarize what information is now known. In the following, I will also quote from my mail correspondence in order to give one or the other figure and to clear up some of the confusion of speculations.

Problems with the vapor chamber of the RX 7900 XTX and the amount of affected cards

I already wrote in the forum that I could also ask sources at the manufacturers of cooling components, who could fully and independently confirm the first assumptions that the error was due to the vapor chamber. In the meantime, however, you have to separate between the general processing problems, as I already described them in a Radeon RX 7900 XT (article is linked at the end) and a real production defect, which only affects the Radeon RX 7900 XTX, though. Both problems exist (see my measurement), but only the RX 7900 XTX’s functionally limited vapor chamber is such an essential problem that it requires an RMA. This is because it is not only the hotspot temperature, but also the memory, which can get as hot as 110 °C and thus operate well above the permissible temperature limit.

However, if it really affects the four to six batches of vapor chambers I mentioned, then the amount of cards affected is even in the high five figures in the worst case. However, it does not affect a single board design, but only the so-called MBA cards (Made by AMD). These cards are sold both by AMD directly and through board partners, who can buy them and sell them under their own label. Colloquially, such a thing is also called a reference card, even if AMD (like NVIDIA with the Founders Edition) wants to stand out a bit from the image of the butter-and-bread card.

As assumed, the cause is the evaporator chamber…  Several batches are affected. Currently, 4-6 batches and thousands of graphics cards are assumed. Only MBA cards are affected. (quote from email)

 

Of course, one can ask why all this was not recognized much earlier and why quality control obviously failed so grandiosely. This also has something to do with the fragmentation of production and supply chains. Both the chamber and the complete cooler come from a third-party manufacturer far in advance and are of course very difficult to test without the board assembled. Using QR codes, however, all components can be assigned in time and also located subsequently.

If the PVT samples (Production Validation Test) worked, then later one takes samples from the current MP (Mass Production) at most. In the best case, such cards are tested e.g. at PC-Partner in special hot boxes, but are there in a vertical setup. And then it comes exactly to the occurred case, because the affected vapor chambers are not completely non-functional, but only more or less limited functional. However, this is almost impossible to monitor with granular tests.

 

Feedback from distributors and system integrators

Since AMD decided to take back and exchange, several hundred MBA graphics cards have already been returned according to various sources. Unfortunately, this also affects system integrators who had to disassemble complete systems again in order to exchange the cards. As an end customer, you only ever see your own individual card, but the group of people who are much harder hit by such problems is much larger. In addition to the costs of the exchange itself, the responsible parties will then have to bear further repair and logistics costs. Not to mention the damage compensation and the loss of image. The points against NVIDIA’s 12VHPWR adapter in the Radeon presentation suddenly look like bad satire.

We had to return 300+ graphics cards of Asus MBA, Sapphire MBA, PowerColor MBA, XFX MBA to the retailers/warehouse/wholesale…
Complete systems also had to be disassembled for this procedure. (quote from email)

 

Exchange or return? AMD offers both

There are now also instructions to the employees concerned to address the problem actively and accommodatingly if the customer can plausibly explain or prove a corresponding error. The first cards are already in exchange and AMD offers both a refund and an exchange for a working graphics card. However, the return shipping for a refund is at the customer’s expense, which is unattractive but not unusual.

End customers have to contact the vendor or AMD support directly. Distributors and stores have to send the affected graphics cards to wholesalers and warehouses. (quote from email)

 

The relevant mail to the persons concerned then looks like this (names of the parties involved made unrecognizable):

Here, too, my thanks go to the many active readers and silent consumers who have turned to me with confidence. Some things could already be solved accommodatingly in advance via the small inofficial channels, for others you really had to rely on AMD’s unofficial Go! wait for the support. So far, however, I am not aware of any case that could not be resolved to my satisfaction. From that point of view, it’s good news for the customer. However, as for the cost and scope of the whole operation – I’d rather not even know.

Yes, mistakes can happen. This is due to the nature of the business and the highly complex processes involved. But it is also the manufacturer’s duty to communicate openly and transparently. Simply sitting out announced statements is never a good solution. If you consider the usual salaries of well-paid marketing, this should actually suggest capable and competent people who can also pro-actively deal with such situations. The ostrich is the completely wrong role model from the animal kingdom, otherwise you quickly look like a donkey (the dear odd-toed ungulates may please forgive me this comparison).

The other problem, which is not quite as serious, is the final processing of the heatsink on some cards. My Radeon RX 7900 XT had various machining errors (crooked grinding, bumps), which can no longer be dismissed with acceptable gaps when the chamber including the mounted lamella construct is firmly connected to the body and not mounted floating (as e.g. with NVIDIA and older Radeons) to be able to compensate for unevenness by sophisticated tightening on its own. Here, the engineers would do better to orient themselves on functioning role models (also from their own production). Form follows Function and not vice versa.

RDNA3 and too high hotspot temperatures on some AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT(X) – Cause research

 

257 Antworten

Kommentar

Lade neue Kommentare

DrDre

Veteran

240 Kommentare 93 Likes

Oha. Was für ein Aufwand...
Gut das AMD so kulant ist und auch hoffentlich bleibt (y)

Antwort 2 Likes

D
Designo1980

Mitglied

16 Kommentare 8 Likes

Gibt's eine Übersicht, welche Batches betroffen sind? Also Seriennummern o.ä.?

Antwort 1 Like

Ifalna

Veteran

318 Kommentare 285 Likes

Autsch, sowas wünscht man keinem Hersteller.

Gut dass die batches bekannt sind, jetzt muss der Handel flink reagieren, damit nicht noch mehr verkauft werden.

Antwort 1 Like

LurkingInShadows

Urgestein

1,348 Kommentare 550 Likes

Kulant? Bei einem eindeutig nicht vom Konsumenten verursachten kapitalen Mangel?

Antwort 14 Likes

Igor Wallossek

1

10,182 Kommentare 18,768 Likes

Ja, kulant ist das nicht, sondern rechtlich so einforderbar. AMD macht also nur das, wozu sie per Gesetz verpflichtet sind. In Zeiten, wo ein vermeintliches Plastikteilchen in einer Erbsendose zu palettenweisem Vernichten weltweit zurückgerufener Konserven führt, ist das Ganze hier nur folgerichtig und nötig. Kulant wäre gewesen, bei der Erstattung noch ein Versandlabel zu schicken. Auf die drei Euro käme es dann sicher auch nicht mehr an, hätte aber eine gute Außenwirklung. Solche Aktionen zeigen aber auch, wie schlecht das Marketing auf solche Fälle vorbereitet ist.

Es handelt sich um einen schweren Sachmangel, der auch noch kausale Folgen verursachen kann (z.B. Speicher). Da hört der Spaß wirklich auf.

Antwort 24 Likes

Lieblingsbesuch

Veteran

423 Kommentare 75 Likes

Müsste AMD unter dem Gesichtspunkt nicht auch die Versandkosten übernehmen?

Antwort Gefällt mir

knollo

Mitglied

55 Kommentare 34 Likes

Eijeijei, da hat amd wirklich einen Bock geschossen. Sehr schade nach der erfolgreichen Navi2 Reihe. Der echte Wert einer Firmenmarke zeigt sich, aus meiner Sicht, ohnehin erst im Problemfall. Immerhin scheinen jetzt die Weichen in der richtigen Richtung zu stehen. Na mal schauen wie es weitergeht.

Antwort Gefällt mir

LurkingInShadows

Urgestein

1,348 Kommentare 550 Likes

Ich lese das Schreiben so, dass sie das bei UMTAUSCH auch machen, nur bei Geld-zurück nicht.

Also quasi: Bei Kunden die sagen, gut war ein Hoppala, wir können uns einigen wird der Versand übernommen, bei denen die im Streit gehen, gibts zum Abschied noch ein "Baba, und foi net" (== Tschüß, und fall nicht hin (beim rausgehen))

Antwort 1 Like

*
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Veteran

496 Kommentare 312 Likes

Das ist leider eine riesen Scheiße für AMD woran vermutlich aber keiner bei AMD so richtig Schuld ist. Die entstehenden Kosten sind extrem.

Das tut richtig weh. Mich würde interessieren, ob man da Schadenersatzforderungen an den Produzenten der Kühler stellen kann. Und ob die dann überhaupt in der Lage sind, diesen Schadensersatz zu stemmen.

Antwort 1 Like

Blubbie

Urgestein

808 Kommentare 275 Likes

Aber für alle die die Karten eh "unter Wasser" setzen ist das schnurz oder? Nur für den späteren Wiederverkauf wird es dann doof....

Antwort Gefällt mir

FritzHunter01

Moderator

1,153 Kommentare 1,567 Likes

Der Reputationschaden ist mit Abstand immer das Schlimmste! Vor allem dann, wenn man seinem Mitbewerber vorher noch einen Seitenhieb verpasst - bevor man selbst vom Schicksal getroffen wird.

Schadensersatz? Wer trägt den?

in der Regel der Verursacher, somit der Lieferanten der Vapor-Chamber. Wie das letztendlich genau geregelt ist kann ich nicht sagen. Aber der Lieferanten der VC möchte ich nicht sein!

Interessant ist auch, dass die AMD-Mitstreiter (Fans und immer gegen das Grüne-Lager…) ganz schön verstummen… auffällig!

Danke Igor für die investigative Arbeit.

Antwort 12 Likes

LurkingInShadows

Urgestein

1,348 Kommentare 550 Likes

Musst du auf Gamer s mittelschweren Sinnkrise auch noch rumreiten? :p

Antwort 5 Likes

FfFCMAD

Urgestein

668 Kommentare 173 Likes

Dann hat es jetzt ja mal beide GPU Hersteller erwischt kurz nach dem jeweiligen Launch...

Die Versandlabel muesste AMD/ der Haendler normalerweise auch stellen, zumindest im Rahmen der Gewaehrleistung

Antwort Gefällt mir

mblaster4711

Mitglied

53 Kommentare 27 Likes

🤷‍♂️ Karma is a bitch. 🤷‍♂️
Wer sich über anderen lustig macht (NVIDIAs 12VHPWR-Adapter) bekommt es mehrfach zurück.

Antwort 1 Like

Oryzen

Veteran

305 Kommentare 179 Likes

NVIDIAs 12VHPWR-Adapter ist für mich bei weitem nicht ausgestanden. Und verharmlost möchte ich das auch nicht sehen, auch wenn sich das im Vergleich zu dem was bei AMD gerade passiert ist scheinbar besser "anhört". Das ist ein heftiger Design-To Cost-Fehler, der Generationen von Karten begleiten wird. Für mich geben die beiden Firmen sich nichts. "Quality is a myth" um es mal mit den woken Trendsettern zu sagen.
Tut mir leid für jeden, der jetzt betroffen ist.

Antwort 4 Likes

Zer0Strat

Veteran

162 Kommentare 138 Likes

Eigentlich verstummen die nicht wirklich. Im ComputerBase Forum wird fleißig Whataboutism praktiziert.

Für AMD ist das ganze ärgerlich, aber sie werden das schon hinkriegen. Viel schlimmer sind meiner Meinung nach die Probleme bei RDNA 3, die man nicht über den Austausch einer Komponente lösen kann.

Ja, sie haben richtig peinlich rausgehauen, aber man muss dazu sagen, dass es von vielen Seiten kritisiert wurde.

Du, solange das ansonsten "da draußen" als ausgestanden zu betrachten ist, kannst du das für dich persönlich gerne weiterhin dramatisieren. 😉

Antwort 6 Likes

*
***

Veteran

496 Kommentare 312 Likes

Hier auch, was man gleich an dem Posting über dem Deinen sehen kann.

Antwort 2 Likes

Lieblingsbesuch

Veteran

423 Kommentare 75 Likes

Welche sollen das denn sein?

Antwort Gefällt mir

Case39

Urgestein

2,499 Kommentare 928 Likes

Das ist jetzt wohl das Letzte was AMD braucht...ZEN 4 läuft gar nicht und jetzt der Rückruf bei RDNA3 Karten.

Antwort 1 Like

Danke für die Spende



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About the author

Igor Wallossek

Editor-in-chief and name-giver of igor'sLAB as the content successor of Tom's Hardware Germany, whose license was returned in June 2019 in order to better meet the qualitative demands of web content and challenges of new media such as YouTube with its own channel.

Computer nerd since 1983, audio freak since 1979 and pretty much open to anything with a plug or battery for over 50 years.

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